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Post by JaysGM - (Mat) on Dec 8, 2009 20:18:04 GMT -5
Question, are the Yankees really that much better with Granderson than they were with Damon? (I realize one will play CF while the other played LF, but I'm speaking offensively mostly. That, and now Melky winds up in LF....that's a downgrade offensively....isn't it?)
Damon: 550 AB - .282 avg - 36 doubles - 24 HR - 82 RBI - 12 SB - .365 OBP
Granderson: 631 AB - .249 avg - 23 doubles - 30 HR - 71 RBI - 20 SB - .327 OBP
Cabrera: 485 AB - .274 avg - 28 doubles - 13 HR - 68 RBI - 10 SB - .336 OBP
I don't know, seems to me like they were fine keeping the cheaper and younger Jackson, Coke, and Kennedy and re-signing Damon. Maybe it's just me. What was wrong with signing Cameron, if they did want a CFer?
Everyone's picking on Arizona in this deal, but I agree with them: they got 2 starters for 2 relievers, not bad at all. Kennedy will do much better in Arizona....I think.
And Detroit - the bandits. They robbed everyone blind. Good for them, they need positive things in Detroit.
thoughts?
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Post by JaysGM - (Mat) on Dec 8, 2009 20:31:43 GMT -5
And another thing, why in the world is Tampa going after Bradley when Damon and other OF options are out there? Don't understand....
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Post by cardinalsgm on Dec 8, 2009 20:41:13 GMT -5
well, the winner in this deal is most certainly the yankees. getting one of the best fielding centerfielder's in baseball for a prospect and 2 ham sandwiches is nothing short of highway robbery.
as for melky, i believe he'll either be traded or end up the 4th outfielder. there is no chance he ends up being the everyday leftfielder.
how you perceive the tigers as the big winners here escapes me. everything they received in the deal is somewhat of a question mark including scherzer to some degree.
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Post by dan on Dec 8, 2009 20:51:56 GMT -5
I don't see the upside for the D-Backs on this one. Granderson is younger than Damon, but, that's pretty much it, right? I mean, sure, more potential to breakout and all, but, still, really?
Tigers ship off two talents that have performed well, very well, recently for talented youth. Will that talented youth pan out? Only time will tell. It is clear the Tigers are playing for 2011 and beyond.
Not sure I like this deal on any end.
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Post by O's GM - (Clay) on Dec 8, 2009 21:09:53 GMT -5
I'm not sure why the original post assumes the Yankees aren't still interested in Damon. Granderson's value is debatable. I've read a lot about declining speed and range and the strong platoon splits. There's also discussion of a steady decline rather than just one bad outlier such as Swisher's awful 2008 campaign.
On the other hand, they're getting a CF who by most metrics is at least average defensively, maybe slightly above that. He's in the midst of his prime. He has power that plays well to the dimensions of the new Yankee Stadium. He's also cost-controlled and is more likely to help boost the Yankees to another championship while the "Core-Four" is around than A-Jax would have done.
In signing him, they've reduced Damon's leverage. They can go any number of routes. Sign Johnny. Sign Cameron. Sign Matsui. Sign 2 of the 3. Move Melky or Gardner (Gardbrera) to the bench. Or trade one of them. They have tons of flexibility. I think that's part of the goal. Don't get bent over by Damon. Don't have to overspend for Holliday or Bay, if Johnny signs elsewhere. I think Cashman achieved that goal while helping get the Yankees another player (barely) under 30.
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Post by DiamondbacksGM - (Neal) on Dec 8, 2009 21:10:49 GMT -5
The Yanks robbed Detroit and got Arizona to take a fall at the same time. Granderson is a stud and will lead them to at least 2 more championships in the next 4 years.
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Post by JaysGM - (Mat) on Dec 8, 2009 21:11:13 GMT -5
how you perceive the tigers as the big winners here escapes me. everything they received in the deal is somewhat of a question mark including scherzer to some degree. Max Scherzer is 24, cheap, under control for a long time, had 174 Ks in 170 IP in 2009 and has nothing but upside. Daniel Schlereth is 23, a highly coveted LH reliever, cheap, under control for a longg time, had 22 Ks in 18 IP and could become quite a tandem with Ryan Perry at the back of that Bullpen. Phil Coke is 26, cheap, a coveted LH reliever, had 49 Ks in 60 IP in 2009 with a 1.067 Whip Austin Jackson is 22, cheap, under control for a long long time, an excellent defensive CFer, has 5 tools and hit .300 in 500 AB in AAA as a 22 year old, and added 24 SBs and a .354 OBP. Let's see, last year The tigers could not have given Edwin Jackson away. they got him for Matt Joyce for crying out loud!!!And, Granderson's productivity was going downhill despite having bit bats in the lineup, while his salary was increasing exponentially......The Tigers are bandits in this case.....bandits. Think Hamburgler. lol. |
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Post by O's GM - (Clay) on Dec 8, 2009 21:18:09 GMT -5
how you perceive the tigers as the big winners here escapes me. everything they received in the deal is somewhat of a question mark including scherzer to some degree. Max Scherzer is 24, cheap, under control for a long time, had 174 Ks in 170 IP in 2009 and has nothing but upside. Daniel Schlereth is 23, a highly coveted LH reliever, cheap, under control for a longg time, had 22 Ks in 18 IP and could become quite a tandem with Ryan Perry at the back of that Bullpen. Phil Coke is 26, cheap, a coveted LH reliever, had 49 Ks in 60 IP in 2009 with a 1.067 Whip Austin Jackson is 22, cheap, under control for a long long time, an excellent defensive CFer, has 5 tools and hit .300 in 500 AB in AAA as a 22 year old, and added 24 SBs and a .354 OBP. Let's see, last year The tigers could not have given Edwin Jackson away. they got him for Matt Joyce for crying out loud!!!And, Granderson's productivity was going downhill despite having bit bats in the lineup, while his salary was increasing exponentially......The Tigers are bandits in this case.....bandits. Think Hamburgler. lol. Not sure I'd covet Coke. A-Jax is the biggest ? here. If he develops into even an average cost-controlled CF under team control for 6 years, it's hard to see this trade as bad for the Tigers. To do that he must overcome the K's and show that he can hit while maintaining a sustainable BABIP. The Tigers wanted this. They needed to clear salary for this year. And, they will be in good shape with around $60,000,000 off the books after 2010. Add to that 4 young players under team control and they certainly did not lose. |
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Post by JaysGM - (Mat) on Dec 8, 2009 21:20:09 GMT -5
Agreed O's, Agreed.
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Post by cardinalsgm on Dec 8, 2009 21:27:48 GMT -5
how you perceive the tigers as the big winners here escapes me. everything they received in the deal is somewhat of a question mark including scherzer to some degree. Max Scherzer is 24, cheap, under control for a long time, had 174 Ks in 170 IP in 2009 and has nothing but upside. Daniel Schlereth is 23, a highly coveted LH reliever, cheap, under control for a longg time, had 22 Ks in 18 IP and could become quite a tandem with Ryan Perry at the back of that Bullpen. Phil Coke is 26, cheap, a coveted LH reliever, had 49 Ks in 60 IP in 2009 with a 1.067 Whip Austin Jackson is 22, cheap, under control for a long long time, an excellent defensive CFer, has 5 tools and hit .300 in 500 AB in AAA as a 22 year old, and added 24 SBs and a .354 OBP. Let's see, last year The tigers could not have given Edwin Jackson away. they got him for Matt Joyce for crying out loud!!!And, Granderson's productivity was going downhill despite having bit bats in the lineup, while his salary was increasing exponentially......The Tigers are bandits in this case.....bandits. Think Hamburgler. lol. o.k., i can tell your a glass half full kind of guy. scherzer, aside from having loads of upside and lots of k's still has some question marks. don't get me wrong, i really like the guy and believe in him but he's not a sure thing. coke - was a throw in. the guy the yanks didn't want to give up was dunn. schlereth - huge ?, highly coveted? you failed to mention the 15 walks in those same 18 innings. jackson - a decent prospect but by no means upper tier. now, granderson had some awful splits last year, i'll be the first to admit that as i hammered him as recently as 2 weeks ago regarding this. the flip side to that is in 08 he acquitted himself quite nicely against left handers. hopefully, he'll be closer to his 08 season than last year but it's hard to knock a centerfielder with 30 homers & 20 steals who plays very good defense. |
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Post by JaysGM - (Mat) on Dec 8, 2009 21:35:28 GMT -5
If I'm building a team, I want the cheap 22 year old who hit very well in AAA and plays better D over the expensive 30 year old who is slowing down and will cost me a ton.
That, and the fact that they could have signed Cameron and kept Jackson, Coke, and Kennedy makes this a very questionable move.
Then again, it;s the Yankees and they can buy their way out of any mistakes they make.
I still like it for Detroit. As for Coke, I'd say that tons of teams overpay for good bullpens, he makes the Detroit pen better and allows them to deal Seay now because they have 2 more lefties in the pen!
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Post by dan on Dec 8, 2009 21:38:03 GMT -5
I say Detroit is the winner. They just won't realize it until 2011 and beyond...or when Jackson reverts to previous form in 2010.
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Post by O's GM - (Clay) on Dec 8, 2009 22:09:27 GMT -5
I say Detroit is the winner. They just won't realize it until 2011 and beyond...or when Jackson reverts to previous form in 2010. Don't worry, we know it's against your sworn oath to ever declare the Yankees the winner at anything. |
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Post by dan on Dec 8, 2009 22:20:00 GMT -5
I say Detroit is the winner. They just won't realize it until 2011 and beyond...or when Jackson reverts to previous form in 2010. Don't worry, we know it's against your sworn oath to ever declare the Yankees the winner at anything. The Yankees won* the World Series. It's just a pity they did it against a team with a smaller payroll then them.  The Yankees were great evaluators of talent when it came to Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter plays hard, maintains a perfect image and by all accounts is kind and a great steward of the game and is one of my favorite players of his era. I can't in good consciousness declare the Yankees a winner at anything due to the financial structure of the game. It's not their fault the league allows for a wildly financially uneven playing field. The Yankees won* the World Series and part of the foundation of that victory* was their willingness to work the system. |
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Post by cardinalsgm on Dec 8, 2009 23:47:21 GMT -5
Don't worry, we know it's against your sworn oath to ever declare the Yankees the winner at anything. The Yankees won* the World Series. It's just a pity they did it against a team with a smaller payroll then them. The Yankees were great evaluators of talent when it came to Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter plays hard, maintains a perfect image and by all accounts is kind and a great steward of the game and is one of my favorite players of his era. I can't in good consciousness declare the Yankees a winner at anything due to the financial structure of the game. It's not their fault the league allows for a wildly financially uneven playing field. The Yankees won* the World Series and part of the foundation of that victory* was their willingness to work the system. work the system? what a load of garbage that is. the yankees are willing to spend at any cost to win and they dish out wild amounts of money in luxury taxes that other owners like the marlins, royals, pirates etc.. choose to pocket rather than spend it on their own product. if you have a problem w/ the yanks and the amount of money they can throw around you have to be equally as upset with owners that don't spend any money. the facts are the yanks care more than anyone else. period. btw .. yes, i'm a huge yanks fan ... |
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